Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. and Revelation

Prophet Muhammad’s Reception of Revelation

by Ibn Anwar, BHsc (Hons), MCollT

According to Islamic records, whenever the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. received revelation, except when he dreams it or when the Angel Gabriel comes to him in the form of a man, he would be left with signs of physical discomfort or experience tremendous physical difficulty. To the disbeliever and those critical of Islam, these are signs of a person with psychological problems but to the believer and faithful in the divine, these are signs of a true prophet who walks on the physical plane of existence with a pure heart that is attuned to metaphysical reality whose sublime force leaves noticeable traces on his physical being.

Imagine that as a common man you suddenly receive a special letter or a message from your King or the President of your country, would you not experience utter trepidation as you process the information? Now imagine receiving a special message from the Supreme Creator of the unimaginable universe. What manner of emotional reaction would you experience in such a situation? If you think that you will not feel anything or experience any emotional distress, then you might as well become a wall or a statue of stone with no feelings and emotions.

The Prophet Muhammad’s first revelation:

“The first [kind] of revelation to which the Apostle of God was initiated was the true dream during sleep; and he never saw a dream but it came like the dawn of the mourn (with the clearness of light after darkness). Thereafter the solitude became dear unto him, and he withdrew into seclusion in the cave of Hira’ and there applied himself to ardent devotions. – that is worship – during many nights ere he went home and provided himself with food therefore; then he would return unto Khadijah and provide himself with food for a similar [number of days] – until the truth came unto him whilst he was in the cave of Hira: the angel came unto him and said: “Read! – He said: “I am not of those who read.”
He said [in his narrative]: Then he took me and pressed me until all the strength went out of me; thereupon he released me and said: “Read!” And I said: “I am not of those who read.” Then he took me and pressed me a third time; thereupon he released me and said: “Read in the name of thy Sustainer Who hath created – created man from a clot! Read! And thy Sustainer is the Most Bountiful!”
And thus the Apostle of God returned, his heart trembling, and came unto Khadijah bint Khuwailid and said: “Wrap me up! Wrap me up!” And they wrapped him up until the awe left him. Then he told Khadijah what happened and said unto her: “Verily, I fear for myself.”- Thereupon Khadijah said: “Nay, by God! Never will God humiliate thee! Behold, thou fulfillest the duties of kinship, and supportest the weak, and bringest gain to the destitute, and art bounteous toward a guest, and helpest those in genuine distress.” [1]

In the Prophet’s first experience of revelation after “al-ru’ya al-salihah fi al-nawm” (the true dream during sleep), he felt like every breath had left him: “Then he took me and pressed me until all strength went out of me…” After the surreal and unearthly ordeal in the cave, he hurried back home to his wife with his heart trembling and he asked his beloved wife Khadijah to wrap him up.

It is clear that when the Prophet first received God’s Word, His revelation, it was truly a mentally and physically strenuous and even devastating experience for him. The detractor will query, “Why did the Prophet fear the divine? Is this not evidence that he actually experienced demonic possession rather than receiving God’s revelation?”

Renowned Christian writer and former nun, Karen Armstrong certainly does not believe so. To her, the Prophet’s s.a.w. reaction was completely natural for a human being on the physical plane. To her, when the divine was unveiled to him from the metaphysical reality, the weight was such that it was life shattering:

“He was able to hear the divine message. And it’s quite clear that revelation — some of the prophets of Israel had this experience too — is devastating. Not a nice peaceful experience, but something that racks them in every limb. Prophet Jeremiah cried aloud, “Ah God, God, “I can’t speak, I’m a child. Your revelation hurts me in every limb.” Isaiah, when he saw his vision of God in the temple, said, I’m dead. I have looked on the Lord of Hosts.” This is a lethal power because the impact of what’s coming through is shattering. Your world as it was before goes.” [2] *

In Armstrong’s view, the Prophet Muhammad’s s.a.w. experience mirrors the experience of such great biblical prophets as Jeremiah and Isaiah.

And an important point to be noted is that the Prophet’s reaction as recorded in the narration above is proof positive that he was not an impostor. If he was a pretender to the noble seat of prophethood, he would not have experienced such great surprise at receiving the first revelation. The utter shock that he felt upon receiving the revelation is a sure sign of a man who was completely caught unawares and was not prepared in any way to face such a tremendous event.

Evil spirits? Had the Prophet’s experience been one that was demonic, his message would surely contain nothing but evil. And any honest and true explorer and reader of the Qur’an knows full well that it praises God as one in the most magnificent of ways and condemns Satan and demons as accursed beings that should be fought against and resisted. As such, a Christian detractor should do well to remember Jesus’ words that demons do not go against themselves:

“”If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!” (New American Standard Bible, Mark 3:26; Cf. Matthew 12:26 & Luke 11:18)

Driving the same point, Prof. Israr Ahmad Khan of the Department of Qur’an and Sunnah Studies, International Islamic University of Malaysia writes:

“The Qur’an reiterates the fact that it is from Allah; it leads the seeker to the right direction; it teaches all that is good and prohibits all that is bad…

If the source of the Prophet’s inspiration was the ‘Evil One’, he must have received only evil; he should not have spoken things pious, condemning and banning wine, gambling, adultery, promiscuity, theft, etc., all evil-doings. Those who utter that the Qur’an has descended from an evil spirit seem to have been themselves inspired by evil forces.” [3]

Finally, the record states that the prophet s.a.w. went into seclusion in the Cave of Hira’ atop a hill for “ardent devotions -that is worship…” away from the adoration of idols that plagued his people below. He did not go there to seek demons or Satan. Such a man of faith that resisted idols and sought pure worship that was free of images and man-made conceptions would not have been led astray by evil spirits, demons or Satan. Indeed, as the narration above testifies, he was piously patient and meditated “until the truth came unto him” (hatta ja’ahu al-haq).

At other times, after the unveiling in the Cave of Hira’, the Prophet s.a.w. would sweat profusely upon receiving God’s Word or he would hear a loud ringing like a bell and this was the hardest on him:

“Al-Harith ibn Hisham asked the Apostle of God and said: “O Apostle of God, how doth the revelation come unto thee?” — And the Apostle of God said: “Sometimes it cometh unto me like the ringing of a bell — and that is most hard on me; then it leaveth me, and indeed I retain in my memory what it said. And sometimes the angel assumeth the likeness of a man for me and speaketh unto me, and I retain in my memory what he saith.”

A’ishah said: “And, verily, I saw him whilst the revelation descended upon him on a day severe with cold; then it left him — and, behold, his brow was streaming with sweat.” [4]

In other narrations such as one from ‘Ubadah bin Samit r.a., it is related that when the Prophet s.a.w. received revelation, he would appear to be in pain and the colour of his face seemed changed.

These instances of receiving the Word of God post first revelation, to some critics are signs of a person with mental ailments such as epilepsy. This kind of critique on the Prophet Muhammad comes as early as 1909 from such orientalists as Duncan Black Macdonald in his ‘Religious Attitude and Life in Islam’ and is retained by Christian missionaries to this very day. Responding to such criticism, Prof. Israr Khan writes:

“The Prophet’s experience could be referred to as a psychopathological case only if the message received through wahy’ appeared bizarre and grotesque; but if it looks quite relevant, coherent, well-organized, the result should be entirely different. It is a matter of reality that the Qur’an the Prophet (s.a.w.) received from God is the most cogent work in terms of both the language and the content. The sick mind is never expected to produce systematic and cohesive theories of life. No such example can be advanced where an epilepsy patient of a victim of psychosis has ever been able even to do normal work while being under the fit. The Qur’an describes itself as Mubin, the meaning of which, as Muhammad Asad puts, is divine writ clear in itself and clearly showing the truth. ‘ Is a mentally disturbed person in a position to being or develop something clear?'” [5]

Notes:

[1] Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Isma’il al-Bukhari (2002). Sahih al-Bukhari: The Early Years of Islam (Muhammad Asad, trans.). Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia: Islamic Book Trust. pp. 5-7

[2] Kirmani, F. (Director). (2011). The Life of Muhammad [Video file]. United Kingdom: BBC.

* The verses that Armstrong refers to in the documentary are from the books of Jeremiah and Isaiah respectively.

Regarding Jeremiah: “Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.” (King James Bible, Jeremiah 1:6)

Regarding Isaiah: “Then I said, Woe is me! for I am dead because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of the hosts.” (Jubilee Bible, Isaiah 6:5; In the NET Bible, the translation is even more dramatic. Instead of “I am dead”, it has Isaiah shouting, “I am destroyed!”)

[3] Israr Ahmad Khan (2000). Qur’anic Studies An Introduction. Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia: Zaman Islam Media. p. 49

[4] Abu Abdullah Muhammad bin Isma’il al-Bukhari (2002). Op. Cit. pp. 4-5

[5] Israr Ahmad Khan (2000). Op. Cit. pp. 48-49

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51 Responses to “Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. and Revelation”

  1. defendchrist says:

    Hi Ibn Anwar
    Muhammad went in the cave to worship who? God didn’t reveal himself to Muhammad at that time so who was worshipping?

    • Ibn Anwar says:

      He went to the cave to worship the One unseen God and His name was known as Allah even at the time. If you are familiar with Islamic history, then you will know that apart from the 300 or so idols that the pagans worshipped, they also believed in Allah whom they left without depictions. They are regarded as polytheists as they associated those many idols with the One and Supreme unseen God. The Prophet belonged to a small group of people that maintained monotheism called the hunafa’ and Waraqa ibn Naufal, the uncle of Khadijah was one of them. He was of course the person who was consulted after the Prophet s.a.w. received his first revelation. Other members of this small band of monotheists were Ubaidillah ibn Jaish, Uthman bin Huwayrith and Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl.

    • robert2016 says:

      you wrote :

      God didn’t reveal himself to Muhammad at that time so who was worshipping?

      my question:

      but according to the jews yhwh did not reveal himself as a form/picture, so who were the jews worshipping?

      i quote :

      Deuteronomy 4 reminds us that we are to worship God only as He appeared to us at Sinai and that we are to never, ever, ever, ever associate Him with any physical form (by the way, I’m paraphrasing). Jesus did not appear to us at Sinai and he has a physical form; ergo, worship of him is forbidden.
      Deuteronomy 13 teaches us that if a prophet produces a miracle and then introduces a new type of worship, he is a false prophet. Jesus introduced a type of worship unknown to our fathers; ergo, his miracles are meaningless and he is a false prophet.

      • DefendChrist says:

        Hi Rober2016
        Why are you trying to accuse Jesus of being a false prophet when the Koran says otherwise…you must be a false Muslim because you can’t be a Muslim without believing in all the prophets, so I have been told by many Muslims.

  2. robert2016 says:

    muslims need to tell the missionaries that the word “ALLAH” means more than

    “i am”

    jay smith , the white ignorant pagan says, “it just means the god…”

    does it?

    quote:

    The very first edition of The New Scofield Reference Bible explains the word elohim to us: “Elohim (sometimes El or Elah), English for “God,” the first of the three primary names of Deity, is a uni-plural noun formed from El-strength, or the Strong One, and Alah, to swear, to bind oneself by an oath, so implying faithfulness.” Just in the book of Genesis only, elohim is repeated 156 times and 2570 times throughout the whole Old Testament. The suffix –im that means we or us in Hebrew is used to pluralize a name as a sign of respect, honor, majesty, grandeur and magnitude, not of numbers.

    In the English translations of the Old Testament, the Hebrew words translated as God are typically El, Elohim and El-Elohim. In contrasting the Arabic spelling of Al-ilah with the Hebrew spelling of El-Elohim, one would be left with Al-ilh and El-Elhm after the vowel sounds introduced in the English transliteration are deleted. Al-ilh is represented by Alif-Lam-Alif-Lam-Ha in Arabic letters as El-Elhm by the same combination in the Hebrew Alphabet with the exception of the plural –m of respect. Thus, the word Allah is merely the Arabic version of these Hebrew words.

    In describing the moment of crucifixtion, The New Testament attributes the use of the words el and
    elo to Jesus. “About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani” that is, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46),” and “At the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, ” My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? (Mark 15:34).” Remember the suffix –i both in the words Eli and Eloi means my, then, el and elo do mean god.

    As for the Arabic word ilah that is not distinctly different from el and elah, is derived from the Arabic verb aliha-ya’lahu which means seeking refuge, protection, and aid for preservation; to save, rescue, or deliver from evil; or to render one safe and secure to fulfill the needs, thus, to get the needy satisfied and to be worshipped.
    Hence ilah is the one who performs all the above-mentioned actions, thus, a protector, a provider. When the definite article al is prefixed to this word, i.e., al ilah, with the letter “i” being dropped, the word becomes Allah that specifies all these attributes solely to the Creator Himself, meaning, The Only Provider-Protector worthy of worship!
    The English word god, on the other hand, literally means any superhuman object exercising power over nature and man, thus, is invoked and worshipped by sacrifice. Then, the word God is not even an approximate substitute for the word Allah as they drastically differ in meaning even though they both supposedly refer to the same being. Then, the God is not corresponding to Allah in the theological sense.

    The word Allah that denotes the personal name of God in the language of Arabic is not subject to plurality or gender. So, it is unique and refers to His oneness and unity, thus, necessarily covers all the most beautiful names that can appropriately be attributed to His Supreme Being only. Then, the very essence of His existence is to protect and to provide.

    end quote

    “thus necessarily covers ALL THE MOST BEAUTIFUL NAMES THAT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO HIS SUPREME BEING ONLY”

  3. defendchrist says:

    Hey Robert2016
    Do you have an issue that you can’t address people with common decency.Jews worshipped the God that revealed himself to Abraham.

    And furthermore to speak disrespectfully about Jesus how can you call yourself a Muslim.

    Jesus didn’t change anything he fulfilled

    What language Arabs speak in 100AD

    You call Jay Smith a white pagan…your whole religion is filled with pagan rituals

    I ask Ibn Anwar a simple question and he gave me a decent answer. You come on running your mouth.

  4. robert2016 says:

    “”If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!” (New American Standard Bible, Mark 3:26; Cf. Matthew 12:26 & Luke 11:18)

    the critics reply that jesus is not accused of dividing satans kingdom but serving it. jesus himself says that he has come to divide :

    49 “I came to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 51 Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 52 From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; 53 they will be divided:

    jesus was divided on the cross

    jesus: And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come.

    crucifixion of jesus: 33 When it was noon, darkness came over the whole land[h] until three in the afternoon. 34 At three o’clock Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”[i]35 When some of the bystanders heard it, they said, “Listen, he is calling for Elijah.” 36 And someone ran, filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a stick, and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.” 37 Then Jesus gave a loud cry and breathed his last.

  5. defendchrist says:

    Hi Robert2016
    The reason Jesus spoke about Satan divided is the following.

    1. Sickness and disease is a work of Satan on humans

    2. Jesus came healing the sick and disease.

    3. The religious said he healed by the power of Satan.

    So if Jesus is healing by the power of Satan then his kingdom.

    You then try and link what Jesus said in Matthew 10:35 which is dealing family that they will be your enemies.

  6. DefendChrist says:

    Hi Robert2016

    I missed out a key word divided…so,if Jesus was healing by the power of the devil then the devil is dividing his own kingdom, which is what Jesus said to the religious people.

    The Matthew 10:35 onwards is dealing with a total different issue and that was to do with people joining Christ kingdom, that in some households people would become followers of Jesus and some would not.

    In other words a daughter would become a follower whereas a mother would not and so on.

    So please some mixing up the scriptures and issues into one thing because you are making no sense.

  7. DefendChrist says:

    Hi Robert2016
    Are you saying that Jesus is a false prophet and brought a different type of worship? Is that what the Koran says?

    John 1:1-14
    Remember the bible says that Jesus is the word that was in the beginning with God.

    V14 it says the word (who was God) became flesh and dwelt among

    Jesus as.omsaid this…

    Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Glory he had with the father…before the world was.

    What about this scripture?

    John 6:62 what if you should see the son of man ascend up from where he was before?

    • rober2016 says:

      “Are you saying that Jesus is a false prophet and brought a different type of worship? Is that what the Koran says?”

      look, don’t make me write out an angry response.

      yes, the pagan “jesus” you worship brought out a new type of worship

      quote:

      Likewise, at the so-called Last Supper, Jesus attempted to overwrite the Pesach with his own narrative. A day that was dedicated to remembering God’s removal of Israel from Exodus was now to be a day to commemorate Jesus’ death. Jesus is taking something that refers one to God, a day set aside eternally just for this purpose, and repurposing it to make it about himself. This is far from your claim that he always referred people to Hashem. In fact, he is taking a memorial that does refer people to Hashem and now making it to refer to himself. He exalts himself over God, the antithesis of your assertion.

      The Church continues to exalt Jesus over God in the same manner, of course. Shavuot has become for the Church, Pentecost. A day dedicated to celebrating God granting Israel a most precious gift is to become a day about receiving the ability to speak a foreign language without having to learn. Shabbat is not about honoring the Creator but the supposed resurrection. And one may read the works of various counter-counter-missionaries to see how they relate the festivals to Jesus. The things meant to focus the nation of priests on their God are now rewritten by the Church to focus humanity on Jesus. How reminiscent of the one who “shall attempt to change the sacred seasons and the law” (Dan. 7.24).

      ///
      so lets judge jesus according to the jewish law and we find that he has brought people away from the invisible god and made it all about eating his dead flesh and drinking his dead blood

      yes, jesus brought a new type of worship unknown to the people who nailed him

      i end with this quote:

      Jesus provided just the controversy need to substantiate the Pharisees’ position. Look what happened to him! By the time of his death, he had no followers, a mob had just chanted to kill him, and his religion was effectively wiped out. Pharisees proven again to be correct that violating YHWH’s laws only brings condemnation

      • DefendChrist says:

        Roner2016
        Where in the bible does Jesus bring a new type of worship?

        What’s all this about “an angry response” why don’t you just control yourself maybe talk about one subject at a time and come to a conclusion.

        I’m not going to insult or call anyone names just debate one thing at a time.

        So my question to you is where did Jesus bring a new type of worship in the bible?

        • rober2016 says:

          “So my question to you is where did Jesus bring a new type of worship in the bible?”

          why are you asking this silly question? if a jew who needs to depend on his flesh body, oxygen and other things tell people to take him as yhwh incarnate when yhwh warned in his jewish bible to kill people who tell jews to worship human beings, how can you say with straight face “where did jesus bring a new type of worship” ?

      • DefendChrist says:

        Hi Rober2016
        Can you please tell what the things are that Jesus brought as his new religion, there are a number of things you have been saying and as I said before stick to one issue and debate that.

        • robert says:


          Can you please tell what the things are that Jesus brought as his new religion”

          YOU ALREADY READ IT AND YOU MAKE THIS REQUEST?

          quote:

          Likewise, at the so-called Last Supper, Jesus attempted to overwrite the Pesach with his own narrative. A day that was dedicated to remembering God’s removal of Israel from Exodus was now to be a day to commemorate Jesus’ death. Jesus is taking something that refers one to God, a day set aside eternally just for this purpose, and repurposing it to make it about himself. This is far from your claim that he always referred people to Hashem. In fact, he is taking a memorial that does refer people to Hashem and now making it to refer to himself. He exalts himself over God, the antithesis of your assertion.

          The Church continues to exalt Jesus over God in the same manner, of course. Shavuot has become for the Church, Pentecost. A day dedicated to celebrating God granting Israel a most precious gift is to become a day about receiving the ability to speak a foreign language without having to learn. Shabbat is not about honoring the Creator but the supposed resurrection. And one may read the works of various counter-counter-missionaries to see how they relate the festivals to Jesus. The things meant to focus the nation of priests on their God are now rewritten by the Church to focus humanity on Jesus. How reminiscent of the one who “shall attempt to change the sacred seasons and the law” (Dan. 7.24).

    • rober2016 says:


      Remember the bible says that Jesus is the word that was in the beginning with God.

      V14 it says the word (who was God) became flesh and dwelt among”

      so jesus was in the jewish temple singing the jewish testimony of faith and at the same time he was telling the jews in the temple that he is yhwh incarnate?

      so he went to the temple and preached about 1 yhwh who is invisible but then done a u-turn and said that he is god in flesh?

      so jesus thought of himself that he was visible yhwh?

      did the jews see VISIBLE yhwh at sinai?

      yhwh says,

      quote:

      1. God is explicitly commanding Israel not to worship Him in any form. (Deut 4:16)

      quote:

      Deut 4:19. And lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the sun, and the moon, and the stars, all the HOST of heaven, which the Lord your God assigned to all peoples under the entire heaven, and be drawn away to prostrate yourselves before them and worship them.

      “captain of the Lord’s HOST ” mentioned in Joshua 5:14

      same word for “host”

      so you telling me that jesus talks about invisible unseen yhwh and at the same time told jews he was VISIBLE yhwh????????

  8. rober2016 says:

    “Jesus didn’t change anything he fulfilled”

    how did he “fulfill” laws pertaining to women?

    did he fullfill his own circumcision through mother mary?

    i quote :

    Great question! I’ve thought about this a lot over the years and never have I found a satisfactory answer. What does it literally mean when Christians say Jesus came in fulfillment of the Law? What did he fulfill that made the Law null and void? Why do Christians cherry pick the Law? The 10 commandments are in, best rest of the other 100 or so major parts of the Law are out the door? Wellllll, not so fast…. Those other parts of the Law are out the door when it’s convenient. Homophobes like to quote the anti-gay riot act from Leviticus, but isn’t this stuff from Leviticus supposed to have been fulfilled? Why aren’t they worried about the Law against letting your cows mingle with your neighbors cows? Why don’t we stone adulterers? Why do we suffer witches and astrologers and fortune tellers to live? Why can we now wear clothes made of more than one fabric?

    i quote :

    in the mind of moses, righteousness could only be obtained by obeying all of God’s instructions (deu 6:25). in the mind of moses, the only way for a hebrew to avoid SERVING OTHERS gods, is to actually SERVE the one true God. YOU DO THAT BY OBEYING HIM.

    comment : “defend christ” can you tell me how does a god “fulfill” punishment laws like stoning to death ?

    “fulfill” would mean that he had to ACT them out when he was “born under the law” right?

    if your god came as a jew, then he would be judged under the 600 + commandments, right?

    “1. Sickness and disease is a work of Satan on humans”

    quote:

    “as such, certain physical conditions may be classified as ‘impure’ if the normate society does not value them. thus, lev 21:18-21 includes all sorts of physical features (blind or lame… limb too long… injured foot or an injured hand…hunchback, or a dwarf)

    it could also be assumed that they are considered impure precisely because it is assumed that they reflect some sort of sin on the part of their parents”

    its not that sickness and disease is “work of satan” it is corruption in society which considered ill people unequal and less than.

    in john 9:3 blindness is not tied to work of satan but god creating the man blind.

    ot says that God sends disease as punishment and a WORK of God, not satan

    in ot view, disease is work of god

    read deuteronomy 28

    today normate society have equal rights for disabled people

    your god doesn’t blame the parents for producing a blind person, but he says god created him that way so that jesus could have photo opportunity when people see him fix blind mans eyes

    your god also says it is better to enter the kingdom of god disabled

    read mark 9:47

    “2. Jesus came healing the sick and disease.”

    the point was not about “healing the sick and disease”

    even false prophets, according to jesus, would be able to perform healing .

    in jewish writings we have healers everywhere

    the point was about EXPELLING

    you miss the point.


    3. The religious said he healed by the power of Satan.”

    no, they said that through the POWER of belzebub jesus expels demons.
    two different things.

    he replies

    But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house.

    comment: but what if the strongman went on holiday?

    and didn’t the romans bind jesus and nailed him to a cross?
    so the “strong man” according to mark was NAILED and put on cross.

    the pharisees were saying that beelzebub gave jesus powers so effectively he is accused of being “the strong man”

    jesus said “…and false prophets will appear and produce great signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. ”

    by whose power will they be performing “great signs and omens…”
    ?


    So if Jesus is healing by the power of Satan then his kingdom.”

    the accusation is that jesus is working through a higher evil power called belzebub.

    you are talking about “healing” i am talking about CASTING out.

    is jesus accused of casting out satan?

    no he isn’t. he is accused of serving satans will like the false prophets who would perform great signs.

    i quote :

    “a house divided against itself cannot stand” (Mark 3:20-26; Matthew 12:22-26; Luke 11:14-18). But that is a fallacy. Just because the Parthian king wages war on one of his satraps does not mean Parthia will fall, nor does it mean the Parthian king is not the enemy of Rome. In contrast to what Jesus says, this is called setting one’s house in order. In like fashion, a diabolist could certainly take power from Satan and use it against the minions of Satan, not only to fulfill Satan’s will (like the king ousting his satrap), but to gain strategic advantages among his peers (the obvious one: deceiving witnesses into thinking you aren’t working for Satan, by using clever-sounding but ultimately fallacious arguments against that very charge).

    end quote


    You then try and link what Jesus said in Matthew 10:35 which is dealing family that they will be your enemies.”

    jesus said that his PURPOSE is to divide families. why are you not connecting jesus’ purpose to micha 7.5-6?

    you miss the point

    if satans house will fall , then jesus doing his division would also CAUSE his own HOUSE to fall.

    you failed to see the point.

    jesus’ own argument could be used against him

    • DefendChrist says:

      Hi Rober2016
      Here is a question according to the bible who was the law given to? Israel or every nation?

      100 laws? Are you talking about the 613 laws?

      You said…

      in the mind of moses, righteousness could only be obtained by obeying all of God’s instructions (deu 6:25). in the mind of moses, the only way for a hebrew to avoid SERVING OTHERS gods, is to actually SERVE the one true God. YOU DO THAT BY OBEYING HIM.

      How was Abraham was declared righteous before God?

      Genesis 15:6 by faith Abraham was declared righteous by God no law…but the law that Paul speaks about in the book of Galatians

      • rober2016 says:

        you are shameless christian dc
        i mean look at your recent response

        your wrote:

        Genesis 15:6 by faith Abraham was declared righteous by God no law…but the law that Paul speaks about in the book of Galatians

        your god sent himself as a jew in abrahams time?
        why bring this to peoples attention?

        you shameless pauline, didn’t your god say that abraham kept gods commandments , decrees and instructions?

        • DefendChrist says:

          Hi
          Name calling is not going to help you in your cause, that text reveals something that happened in Abrahams time thousands of years before Paul was alive…how is it Pauline?

          This is what the bible says

          Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
          Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
          Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
          Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham

          This is what the bible says why you have such an issue.

          Do you live by the law of Moses? What law is taught to be lived by in the Koran? In fact where is the verse on stoning in the Koran…lost is it?

          You call me a shameful Christian you don’t even know who I am and what I am about, but I’m not going to respond to that so maybe we should just answer one another questions

          • rober2016 says:

            you quoted:

            Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
            Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

            Is this God appearing as a man or not according to this text?
            end quote

            end quote

            1. bible says heaven and earth cannot contain god
            2. bible says god is not a man
            3. bible says DO NOT WORSHIP the hosts of heaven let alone man
            4.
            Deut 4:19. And lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the sun, and the moon, and the stars, all the HOST of heaven, which the Lord your God assigned to all peoples under the entire heaven, and be drawn away to prostrate yourselves before them and worship them.

            “captain of the Lord’s HOST ” mentioned in Joshua 5:14

            5. gods tells jews do not worship the hosts of heaven and the heaven and the earth cannot contain god.

            now if your god has become 100 % flesh and contained in earth by “adjusting” and changing his unseen invisible bit, then he is CONTAINED and become a HOST IN the heavens lol

            6. yes, your torah is a corrupt book.

            7. like all other pagan texts it says one thing but then it contradicts itself in other place

            8. gods taking on forms and shapeshiting is not unique to corrupt torah

            9. at sinai jews say no FORM appeared to the jews and this was according to them mass conversion when they heard their god

            10. now the entire nation, according to the jews SAW NO form
            so you need to weigh the texts and see that the writer in the story is lying when he said abraham saw form of god.

            either you reconcile those passages or your admit your torah is CORRUPT, look , i will quote again:


            Remember the bible says that Jesus is the word that was in the beginning with God.

            V14 it says the word (who was God) became flesh and dwelt among”

            so jesus was in the jewish temple singing the jewish testimony of faith and at the same time he was telling the jews in the temple that he is yhwh incarnate?

            so he went to the temple and preached about 1 yhwh who is invisible but then done a u-turn and said that he is god in flesh?

            so jesus thought of himself that he was visible yhwh?

            did the jews see VISIBLE yhwh at sinai?

            yhwh says,

            quote:

            1. God is explicitly commanding Israel not to worship Him in any form. (Deut 4:16)

            quote:

            Deut 4:19. And lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and see the sun, and the moon, and the stars, all the HOST of heaven, which the Lord your God assigned to all peoples under the entire heaven, and be drawn away to prostrate yourselves before them and worship them.

            “captain of the Lord’s HOST ” mentioned in Joshua 5:14

            same word for “host”

            so you telling me that jesus talks about invisible unseen yhwh and at the same time told jews he was VISIBLE yhwh????????

          • rober2016 says:

            “Do you live by the law of Moses? What law is taught to be lived by in the Koran? In fact where is the verse on stoning in the Koran…lost is it?

            You call me a shameful Christian you don’t even know who I am and what I am about, but I’m not going to respond to that so maybe we should just answer one another questions”

            its your book bozowl. it is your ritual filled early christian brethren who were bitching about ritualistic laws and arguing with the liar paul about keeping the laws in the torah. what do both corrupt testaments have to do with me? you sellotaped both books .

            if you are not doing RITUAL for your god, then you are DOING RITUAL for someone. either your boss at work, or the WAY you eat or you are remembering TRADITIONS OF MEN and abiding by them

          • rober2016 says:

            didn’t your god say that abraham kept gods commandments , decrees and instructions?

          • rober2016 says:

            hey dc

            i quote :

            3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord,[a] do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”

            “Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”

            end quote

            okay, did yhwh the 3 men, think like a human and want something to eat?
            so god says “god is not a man”
            but god does THINK like a man when he wants something to eat?

      • rober2016 says:


        in the mind of moses, righteousness could only be obtained by obeying all of God’s instructions (deu 6:25). in the mind of moses, the only way for a hebrew to avoid SERVING OTHERS gods, is to actually SERVE the one true God. YOU DO THAT BY OBEYING HIM.”

        quote:
        Here is a question according to the bible who was the law given to? Israel or every nation?

        100 laws? Are you talking about the 613 laws?

        your god sent himself as a jew, no?

        your god was “born under law” no?

        so he must have been judged by the law, right?

        1. so did god only send your to obey loving ones enemy and treating your neighbour good? even the pagans can do that. how do you show loyalty to the god of the jews? you do things he ASKS you to do and that is all the rituals accompanied with other works

        do you really think your god could give eternal commands to the jews but leave out the rest of mankind? how do you distinguish yourself from a pagan? even pagans help their neighbours and give charity and other things like that.

        • DefendChrist says:

          Rober2016
          Let’s start again…who did God give the Ten Commandments to?

          Exodus 19:5
          5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

          What covenant is God talking about?

          Exodus 2:24
          24 God heard their groaning and he remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob.

          • rober2016 says:

            I TOLD YOU EVEN PAGANS CAN LOVE ENEMY, GIVE CHARITY, SING IN CHRUCH, WASH themselves in dead BLOOD, REMEMBER a HUMAN SACRIFICIAL RITUAL AND DO 9-5 JOB.

            yhwh, your god, TESTS YOUR LOYALTY BY GIVING YOU RITUALS AND OTHER THINgS TO SEE HOW WELL YOU DO IN YOUR WORKS.

            yhwh, WANTS his children to be DIFFERENT than the pagan nations.

            i quote :

            in the mind of moses, righteousness could only be obtained by obeying all of God’s instructions (deu 6:25). in the mind of moses, the only way for a hebrew to avoid SERVING OTHERS gods, is to actually SERVE the one true God. YOU DO THAT BY OBEYING HIM.

            1. show me one place in acts where anyone can quote a single word from jesus in order to justify salvation without keeping jewish ritual laws?

    • DefendChrist says:

      Hi
      Can you explain the difference.

      You said this…no, they said that through the POWER of belzebub jesus expels demons.
      two different things.

      “by the power” and “through the power” please explain how this is two different things.

    • DefendChrist says:

      Hi Rober2016

      defend christ” can you tell me how does a god “fulfill” punishment laws like stoning to death ?

      Can you quote me the verse in the Koran of the law that says stoning to death for adultery as an example.

  9. rober2016 says:

    “Do you have an issue that you can’t address people with common decency.Jews worshipped the God that revealed himself to Abraham.”

    did yhwh appear as flesh and blood human at sinai?

    what picture did he take on?

    don’t fail to answer this question.

    • DefendChrist says:

      Hi Rober2016

      Here is my answer to you.

      Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
      Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

      Is this God appearing as a man or not according to this text?

      Remember the bible says the Lord appeared

    • defendchrist says:

      Hi Rober2016
      Please answer the question who did God at Sinai give the 10 commandments?

  10. rober2016 says:

    “I missed out a key word divided…so,if Jesus was healing by the power of the devil then the devil is dividing his own kingdom, which is what Jesus said to the religious people.”

    jesus is not ACCUSED of dividing satans kingdom.

    his parables failed to address the argument of the pharisees.
    he was accused of SERVING the kingdom of belzebub.

    here is the text

    “he is possessed by beelzebul,” and, “By the prince of the demons he drives out demons.”

    this is working for beelzebul .

    by who will false prophets perform great signs and wonders?

    “The Matthew 10:35 onwards is dealing with a total different issue and that was to do with people joining Christ kingdom, that in some households people would become followers of Jesus and some would not.

    In other words a daughter would become a follower whereas a mother would not and so on.

    So please some mixing up the scriptures and issues into one thing because you are making no sense.”

    1. jesus says “for i have come to set a man against his father…”

    this is his purpose

    the greek indicates purpose not resultant

    “do not think that i have come to bring peace on earth; i have not come to bring peace, but a sword. for i have come to set a man against his father…”

    close parallel

    “think not that i have come to abolish the law…. i have come not to abolish but to fulfill…”

    you see?

    in both cases negative purpose expression followed by positive purpose clauses.

    it was jesus going around causing striffe and division.

    you can’t spin the text when the grammar in the greek is saying the opposite of your beliefs.

    you have no shame.

  11. rambo says:

    hey dc,

    since your god left his “glory power” behind does that mean he became a weak “inside god” who used to talk to another power version called the “outside god”

    so do you believe jesus the man was a disabled inside god chatting to another version of him ?

    and you tell me that jesus did not introduce new type of worship?

    lol

    • DefendChrist says:

      Hi Rober2016
      You obviously confused about what a Christian believes what do you mean by “the inside God”

      • robert says:

        it is you who are confused christian.

        so lets say you are in galilee
        and jesus is half naked exiting an unknown empty tomb

        is it alright for you to call out to this man while you are in galilee?
        is it alright for you to take jesus in galilee as yhwh?

        if yes, then you are believing in an “inside god” like the pagans of the past.

        do you see?

        • DefendChrist says:

          Hi Rober2016
          I think you should speak less about Pagans your religion by the way is totally pagan.

          Prayer fives times a day…is from the Sabians.

          Running between the two hills….is from the pagans

          Circumambulating the Kaaba…is from the pagans

          Throwing stones at Satan (pillar) is pagan

          Kissing the black stone…is pagan and guess what your prophet did it…that’s called idolatry.

          All these things were being done by the pagans before Muhammad got his “revelation” from an angel.

          And this information is not from answering Islam or wherever you think Christians get their information, it is all from your own Muslims sources that anyone can look up and read.

          You claim in worship a pagan Jesus please quote for me from the Koran what Jesus actually taught.

          If you are going to debate stick to one thing using a machine gun tactic doesn’t help your cause, you act like every Christian doesn’t know what they believe.

          If you want to talk about pagans then let’s do it.

          Islam is a cut and paste religion. God never ever spoke to Muhammad

  12. rambo says:

    hey dc, assuming that todays pauline christianities interpretation is correct and that it is not what goes into your mouth which defiles but what comes out of it

    my question is, why did jesus, the man who brought new type of worship, reduce the laws in tanakh to digestion and drain?

    yhwh gave moral law

    and one of his moral law is to obey him

    when he says don’t eat pig and he makes the “don’t” eternal , then you obey or break.

    yhwh is a holy god and he wants holy eating and holy flesh

    obeying yhwh is right conduct .

    so why did your god reduce torah laws to drain and digestion????

    pauls says that listening to yhwh is a sin

    look , he equates the jewish law and sin together

    i quote :

    In chapter 6 Paul talks about the power of sin to which the unbeliever is enslaved, and from which one is freed by the gospel. In 7:1-7, however, Paul uses the same rhetoric to describe not sin but the Law of Moses—to which one is enslaved and from which we are “discharged” and given “new life of the Spirit” rather than being “slaves . . under the written code” (7:6). So it seems that sin and Law are two sides of the same coin for Paul,
    which is a shocking argument from a Jewish point of view. And so Paul anticipates this objection and asks yet another rhetorical question (7:7), “What then should we say? That the law is sin?” Paul answers, “By no means!” but commentators (at least the ones I’ve read) see in the following verses (8-13) a rather unsatisfying attempt by Paul to extricate himself from he seems to have just done, namely equating law and sin, and thus potentially throwing the Old Testament under the bus. (It doesn’t help Paul’s case that earlier, in 5:20, he sums up the law’s value as revealing the depth of sin rather than being a solution.)

    Paul has a few other such moments in the letter where he seems to be backpedaling. By the force of his excitement to preach the gospel, perhaps Paul ran ahead of himself.

    Think about it. The more airtight Paul makes his argument (by citing the Old Testament) that it has been God’s plan all along to show no partiality (2:11; 3:21-31) to Jews, the more Jewish followers of Jesus might want to ask, “So, was all that back then about keeping the covenant just a big smokescreen? And what about all those Jews over the
    centuries who lived their lives according to Torah, some of whom were martyred—does that mean nothing?”

    Paul’s argument threatened to call into question the very faithfulness, justice, and righteousness of God. “If this is the kind of about-face God can pull, is this God trustworthy?” Which is to ask, “Is this God at all?”

    so how can you say jesus did not bring new type of worship?

    • DefendChrist says:

      Hi Rober2016
      I wish you would stop going on about Jesus changing the law so that people can eat pork,maybe you should deal with your own prophet first.

      The bible says…

      “The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, ‘Say to the Israelites: “Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud. There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you.”’” Leviticus 11:1-4

      “Do not eat any detestable thing. These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep. You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the coney. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you.” Deuteronomy 14:3-7

      Yet when it comes to Islam and the commandments of Moses…

      “Of the cattle are some for burden and some for meat: eat what Allah hath provided for you, and follow not the footsteps of Satan: for he is to you and avowed enemy. (Take) eight (head of cattle) in (four) pairs: of sheep a pair, and of goats a pair; say, hath He forbidden the two males, or the two females, or (the young) which the wombs of the two females enclose? Tell me with knowledge if ye are truthful: Of camels a pair, and of oxen a pair; say, hath He forbidden the two males, or the two females, or (the young) which the wombs of the two females enclose? – Were ye present when Allah ordered you such a thing? But who doth more wrong than one who invents a lie against Allah, to lead astray men without knowledge? For Allah guideth not people who do wrong. Say: ‘I find not in the Message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination – or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah’s’. But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them that fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone: this in recompense for their willful disobedience: for We are True (in Our ordinances). If they accuse thee of falsehood, say: “Your Lord is full of mercy all-embracing; but from people in guilt never will His wrath be turned back.” S. 6:142-147

      “The sacrificial camels we have made for you as among the signs from Allah: in them is (much) good for you: then pronounce the name of Allah over them as they line up (for sacrifice): when they are down on their sides (after slaughter), eat ye thereof, and feed such as (beg not but) live in contentment, and such as beg with due humility: thus have We made animals subject to you, that ye may be grateful.” S. 22:36

      Deal with the camel issue in Islam before you talk about Christians and Pork

  13. rambo says:

    “19 “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

    i’m kinda confused here “dc”

    matthew is writing after your god died.
    he is writing to christians
    if matthew thought that the commandments from the torah were only for the jews, what the heck is he doing telling his community about laws which no longer apply to them?

    it makes no sense to me what he would do this

  14. DefendChrist says:

    Hi Rober2016
    This is what you said…
    dc, assuming that todays pauline christianities interpretation is correct and that it is not what goes into your mouth which defiles but what comes out of it

    This scripture
    Mar 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
    Mar 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

    What is the context? Obviously eating food without washing hands. Stick to the context.

    • robert says:

      but you are missing the point again.

      i have many commentaries before me and i already knew that the verse could be interpreted to mean that it is not talking about foods which come from pig because pig would not even cross jesus’ mind.
      some say it is about eating kosher with dirty hands
      some say that the words “declared all foods clean” were not jesus’ words but marks invention

      some say that matthew removed the markan commentary and brought attention to eating food with unwashed hands

      my point was how your religion has interpreted it and your religion says that the commandments of yhwh have been reduced to digestion and shit

      “Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;”

      from scientific perspective “you are what you eat”

      and certain foods can get you “horny”

      “Mar 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?”

      so there you go, mark explicitly says that yhwhs command to not eat is reduced to digestion and then shitted out from backside.

      this is how pauline christianity has understood the text and this is why paul says listening to yhwh is a sin and obeying his commands = sin

  15. DefendChrist says:

    Hi. Rober2016


    3. The religious said he healed by the power of Satan.”

    no, they said that through the POWER of belzebub jesus expels demons.
    two different things.

    Two different things what are you talking about, according to the context of the scripture…

    Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
    Mat 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
    Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils

    Wouldn’t you say that a blind man is HEALED and so casting out a demon is HEALING a person.

    So Jesus says is saying if he did by the power of the devil, then the devil is standing against himself, because remember Jesus said the possessed man was blind and dumb because of the demon.

    • robert says:


      3. The religious said he healed by the power of Satan.”

      no, they said that through the POWER of belzebub jesus expels demons.
      two different things.

      Two different things what are you talking about, according to the context of the scripture…

      Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
      Mat 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
      Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils

      Wouldn’t you say that a blind man is HEALED and so casting out a demon is HEALING a person.

      So Jesus says is saying if he did by the power of the devil, then the devil is standing against himself, because remember Jesus said the possessed man was blind and dumb because of the demon.”

      :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

      so now you want to bring in matthews version of the story?
      how is REMOVING the demon proving that jesus is not working for the evil one? did you fail to read this quote? :

      “a house divided against itself cannot stand” (Mark 3:20-26; Matthew 12:22-26; Luke 11:14-18). But that is a fallacy. Just because the Parthian king wages war on one of his satraps does not mean Parthia will fall, nor does it mean the Parthian king is not the enemy of Rome. In contrast to what Jesus says, this is called setting one’s house in order. In like fashion, a diabolist could certainly take power from Satan and use it against the minions of Satan, not only to fulfill Satan’s will (like the king ousting his satrap), but to gain strategic advantages among his peers (the obvious one: deceiving witnesses into thinking you aren’t working for Satan, by using clever-sounding but ultimately fallacious arguments against that very charge).

      end quote

      dc, how will false prophets who produce great signs cast out/heal?
      are you blind that you can’t see that what jesus did , did not address the charge of the pharisees?

      the text i was reading clearly said that jesus was thought to be crazy and the scribes said he works through the evil one :

      20 and the crowd came together again, so that they could not even eat. 21 When his family heard it, they went out to restrain him, for people were saying, “He has gone out of his mind.” 22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebul, and by the ruler of the demons he casts out demons.”

      you boastfully say “what are you talking about…”

      well, the above is what i was talking about.

      now obviously casting out is different than healing because

      this text must’ve referred to this incident


      Just then there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit, 24 and he cried out, “What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? ”

      was this guy deaf and dumb too?

      you wrote:
      then the devil is standing against himself, because remember Jesus said the possessed man was blind and dumb because of the demon.”
      …..

      1. 22 Then they brought to him a demoniac who was blind and mute; and he cured him, so that the one who had been mute could speak and see.

      note it does not tie the mute and blindness to the demon who possessed him? that guy could’ve been blind and mute BEFORE he was possessed.
      in judaism disease is creation of yhwh, not satan.

      notice jesus in his response did not say that the man was “blind and dumb because of the demon.” ?

      the casting out and the healing could’ve been independent of each other
      but matthew glued them into one.

  16. DefendChrist says:

    Hi Rober2016
    What exactly are you saying here…

    some say that matthew removed the markan commentary and brought attention to eating food with unwashed hands

    my point was how your religion has interpreted it and your religion says that the commandments of yhwh have been reduced to digestion and shit

    1. There is not a lot of difference the Matthew and Mark account of this issue.

    2. Our religion says…that Gods commandments have been reduced to…

    Point two I have no idea what you are talking about.

  17. robert says:

    24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons, that this fellow casts out the demons.”

    ONLY by beelzebuls , ruler of the demons.


    Wouldn’t you say that a blind man is HEALED and so casting out a demon is HEALING a person.”

    through beelzebul just like the false prophets who would perform great signs. what was it in matthews time that caused people to think that the devil could give power to humans to cast out demons? the false prophets could also argue that what they are doing was destructive of satans kingdom, but you would say they are deceiving people with their words.


    So Jesus says is saying if he did by the power of the devil, then the devil is standing against himself, because remember Jesus said the possessed man was blind and dumb because of the demon.”

    how is the devil standing against himself when jesus is accused of doing the devils will and is given the power to do the devils will?
    this is the WISH of beelzebub “by belelzebub he casts out….”
    the false prophets would be carrying out the wish of beelzebub too

    he is agent of satan according to the pharisees.
    notice jesus does not even deny being possessed by satan?

  18. robert says:

    every single muslim must agree that any prophet who calls one to the worship of himself must be the agent of the satan. the paulines are saying that jesus called the christians to worship him as god.
    so muslims should be “one ” with the scribes and pharisees that the by the power of the evil one jesus cast out demons.

  19. robert says:

    diabolist :
    Theology.
    action aided or caused by the devil; sorcery; witchcraft.
    the character or condition of a devil.
    a doctrine concerning devils.
    a belief in or worship of devils.
    2.
    action befitting the devil; deviltry.

    i have read that even diabolists can take power from satan and wage war on satans minions without causing any division to satans kingdom

    what is worse for jesus is that he is accused of being “the strongman” and then is bound and nailed to a cross

    any jew could have approached him while he was on the cross and said:

    “you are plundered jesus”

    people like defend christ go around talking about the angel which muhammad met in the cave and try to say that it is not a godly angel.

    when it comes to the galilean peasant, they will make sure to prove that his exorcisms were heavenly.

    this is why these scum bags are evil

    if a hindu performs exorcism in the name of vishu and cast out demons, they will be quick to say that the hindu cast the evil demon through satan

    i quote

    It just says he “gave them power” over demons, which is from the Holy Spirit and connote personal divinity. Solomon had the same power and people were still casting out demons in the name of King Solomon even in Jesus’ day (Josephus Antiquities 8.2.5).
    end quote

    so it is said by josephus that people were casting out demons in solomons name

    so by whose name was jesus casting out ? if in his own name them why isn’t he a devil?

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